These are great suggestions -- thank you! I would also note that sometimes a BFM just isn't aware of the impact of his behavior and by never being confronted on it doesn't learn. I was very positively surprised a couple of years ago when at an adult music camp I got up the courage to talk privately to a conductor who was using demeaning comments that were making the musicians very uncomfortable. Not to my surprise, he was unaware of his impact on them, but to my surprise, he changed completely with the next rehearsal and for the rest of the week. So please try to have the courage to address this -- that's the only way it will change.
Hmmm, this famous oboe player appears to be completely comfortable mocking women in front of everyone at this “master class”. It comes from a deep seated belief system that men are superior and women are inferior.
We as artists and students all have to grapple with our inner critical voice that cripples our ability to create beauty. This is a subject worthy of discussion, however he chose to use her gender to mock and demean her. Despicable.
It is very difficult as a professional musician to put one's own career on the line by speaking out against idiots like Albrecht Meyer. He comes from the mafia orchestra (Berlin) and he seems to be unconditionally admired worldwide by enough uninformed oboists that it can be dangerous to call him out publicly- which I applaud Katherine for doing. Hopefully by Katherine just posting this video publicly, Albrecht Meyer will get the message. However, it seems likes his many ignorant fans will always come to his defence.
Besides his disgraceful and sexist comments, I'm astounded at his extremely basic teaching abilities. His advice on how to get a low note to speak is so basic and devoid of practical information for the student. And his own demonstrations of how to do did not sound good- he didn't sound any better than the student. Why he is put on a pedestal is a mystery.....
These are excellent suggestions. In my fantasy world (and i am aware it is a fantasy), I stand up and say “that’s not funny. It’s rude and shitty and you need to apologize now”. And when they don’t then I say “ this class is over, students you’re excused, Mr
Musician get off the stage”
The fact that we can’t just be direct just shows how much we want to tip toe around this bs. Essentially it means there is some level of tolerating it within all of us
I really, really wish that this is what I had done when I recently witnessed problematic behavior in a masterclass. This is so helpful, and I resolve to do better next time. Thank you.
Agree. As grumpy older women, we should find the courage to stand up and advocate for these young women in this humiliating vulnerable destructive situation.
Great common sense suggestions. It's hard to believe that any teacher would act this way. I know students feel powerless, but the host teacher should be responsible.
This is confirmation bias at its best, you decided he is sexist and confirm your bias with what he is saying. You have no idea what he is thinking and what he is saying can be interpreted in many ways.
What he is saying is just using stereotypes to convey how a thing should be played. There's nothing wrong with that. Unless you can decisively reject that he is just doing that - and I don't think you can - there's nothing wrong in using these comparisons.
He is not mocking women. He is just saying that a steroetypical man's approach to playing works better than stereotypical woman's approach. Yeah, it's an instrument where you need a lot of force and in general, playing solos is indeed a place where you often need to yell I, I, I. That's not a typical women behaviour.
I just wonder how many people take instructions/criticism from teachers personally. Yes, there are some who use it to solve their own problems; however most just want to explain how to play music. If you take it personally, you are in a way misrepresenting the other person; and, I'd almost say, wilfully. That's not nice.
This is a rich comment with lots to unpack. Can you please leave your real name with it? If not, why?
Also, before I respond further I wanted to ask your level of expertise with the oboe, since you explain here that it's an "instrument where you need a lot of force."
I think the first interesting thing is that the first thing you decided to react to is not content of my message, but the fact that I didn't leave my name. Interesting thing to unpack, isn't it?
Thanks, Ondrej. I will definitely respond further, but it will take some time. Since you knew who I was when writing me, I like to know the same to respond. Also--sorry I perhaps added after you saw this, but can you identify your level of expertise with regard to the oboe? Thanks.
Again, it's very interesting that you are asking me question that are very irrelevant to the topic being discussed. In a way, I wouldn't need to be a player at all to participate in this discussion, would I?
Anyway, since you asked: I'm an amateur viola player with quite an extensive experience (often participating week-long workshops with top players over here) who picked an oboe about 10 years ago just for fun. Unlike the viola I woudn't consider myself an experienced oboe player, but I can play reasonably.
Returning to the topic: I heard similar words being said to a girl at school by a teacher (female) regarding her projection on stage (violin). I just don't see anything wrong with that - don't behave like this (caricature of a woman stereotype), behave like this (caricature of a man stereotype). It is intentionally exaggerated (becuse anything we do on stage should be exaggerated, shouldn't it), and it conveys the message actually quite well.
That is, unless you decide to read past what was said. Like that using this comparison is mocking women. Which it isn't. But you can read it that way...if you want to. Do you want to?
It's not at all irrelevant. In your comment here, you chose to explain to me about the oboe (pretty badly, I might add.) But don't worry, is a great comment and I will unpack all of it as soon as I can.
Ok, looking forward to that. I'd like to note, that my comment about oboe needing a lot of force is obviously wrong on some detailed level of music making that you choose, but it is actually irrelevant to the point of the discussion, so I hope you won't lose time trying to explain to me that I don't understand oboe playing.
This is not about me. This is about what Mayer said at the course and how you interpret it. It would be nice if we stick with that.
Your suggestions are great but I would never have had the nerve to follow them when I was young. As an older woman, I have found the courage. As a matter of fact, my composition teacher said something inappropriate to me in a private lesson and I stopped him by saying "That was rude." He looked surprised, but never did it again. Things improved so much that he ended up being my mentor.
I wouldn't have had the courage to do this back in my student days in the '80s, but perhaps someone can stand up in the moment and say "I'm uncomfortable with the language/gesture/touching I just heard/observed, and I imagine the student on stage is also uncomfortable. Would anyone that agrees with me please stand up, too?"
Or "I think there's a way to convey the same idea without being offensive, such as: "I would like you to play it ____. Would anyone else who found this comment offensive please stand up?"
Or "I think people may be laughing because they are uncomfortable; I think you could convey your idea in a more supportive manner like this ..."
These are great suggestions -- thank you! I would also note that sometimes a BFM just isn't aware of the impact of his behavior and by never being confronted on it doesn't learn. I was very positively surprised a couple of years ago when at an adult music camp I got up the courage to talk privately to a conductor who was using demeaning comments that were making the musicians very uncomfortable. Not to my surprise, he was unaware of his impact on them, but to my surprise, he changed completely with the next rehearsal and for the rest of the week. So please try to have the courage to address this -- that's the only way it will change.
Hmmm, this famous oboe player appears to be completely comfortable mocking women in front of everyone at this “master class”. It comes from a deep seated belief system that men are superior and women are inferior.
We as artists and students all have to grapple with our inner critical voice that cripples our ability to create beauty. This is a subject worthy of discussion, however he chose to use her gender to mock and demean her. Despicable.
It is very difficult as a professional musician to put one's own career on the line by speaking out against idiots like Albrecht Meyer. He comes from the mafia orchestra (Berlin) and he seems to be unconditionally admired worldwide by enough uninformed oboists that it can be dangerous to call him out publicly- which I applaud Katherine for doing. Hopefully by Katherine just posting this video publicly, Albrecht Meyer will get the message. However, it seems likes his many ignorant fans will always come to his defence.
Besides his disgraceful and sexist comments, I'm astounded at his extremely basic teaching abilities. His advice on how to get a low note to speak is so basic and devoid of practical information for the student. And his own demonstrations of how to do did not sound good- he didn't sound any better than the student. Why he is put on a pedestal is a mystery.....
These are excellent suggestions. In my fantasy world (and i am aware it is a fantasy), I stand up and say “that’s not funny. It’s rude and shitty and you need to apologize now”. And when they don’t then I say “ this class is over, students you’re excused, Mr
Musician get off the stage”
The fact that we can’t just be direct just shows how much we want to tip toe around this bs. Essentially it means there is some level of tolerating it within all of us
He says "Do it like a man". Ugh.
Yeah, cuz he has an inferiority problem…
I really, really wish that this is what I had done when I recently witnessed problematic behavior in a masterclass. This is so helpful, and I resolve to do better next time. Thank you.
Agree. As grumpy older women, we should find the courage to stand up and advocate for these young women in this humiliating vulnerable destructive situation.
1. In advance, need written guidance from the Dean to the guest, about acceptable behavior.
2. Audience needs to audibly groan when such behavior occurs.
Great common sense suggestions. It's hard to believe that any teacher would act this way. I know students feel powerless, but the host teacher should be responsible.
This is confirmation bias at its best, you decided he is sexist and confirm your bias with what he is saying. You have no idea what he is thinking and what he is saying can be interpreted in many ways.
What he is saying is just using stereotypes to convey how a thing should be played. There's nothing wrong with that. Unless you can decisively reject that he is just doing that - and I don't think you can - there's nothing wrong in using these comparisons.
He is not mocking women. He is just saying that a steroetypical man's approach to playing works better than stereotypical woman's approach. Yeah, it's an instrument where you need a lot of force and in general, playing solos is indeed a place where you often need to yell I, I, I. That's not a typical women behaviour.
I just wonder how many people take instructions/criticism from teachers personally. Yes, there are some who use it to solve their own problems; however most just want to explain how to play music. If you take it personally, you are in a way misrepresenting the other person; and, I'd almost say, wilfully. That's not nice.
This is a rich comment with lots to unpack. Can you please leave your real name with it? If not, why?
Also, before I respond further I wanted to ask your level of expertise with the oboe, since you explain here that it's an "instrument where you need a lot of force."
Sure I can. Ondrej Palkovsky.
I think the first interesting thing is that the first thing you decided to react to is not content of my message, but the fact that I didn't leave my name. Interesting thing to unpack, isn't it?
Thanks, Ondrej. I will definitely respond further, but it will take some time. Since you knew who I was when writing me, I like to know the same to respond. Also--sorry I perhaps added after you saw this, but can you identify your level of expertise with regard to the oboe? Thanks.
Again, it's very interesting that you are asking me question that are very irrelevant to the topic being discussed. In a way, I wouldn't need to be a player at all to participate in this discussion, would I?
Anyway, since you asked: I'm an amateur viola player with quite an extensive experience (often participating week-long workshops with top players over here) who picked an oboe about 10 years ago just for fun. Unlike the viola I woudn't consider myself an experienced oboe player, but I can play reasonably.
Returning to the topic: I heard similar words being said to a girl at school by a teacher (female) regarding her projection on stage (violin). I just don't see anything wrong with that - don't behave like this (caricature of a woman stereotype), behave like this (caricature of a man stereotype). It is intentionally exaggerated (becuse anything we do on stage should be exaggerated, shouldn't it), and it conveys the message actually quite well.
That is, unless you decide to read past what was said. Like that using this comparison is mocking women. Which it isn't. But you can read it that way...if you want to. Do you want to?
It's not at all irrelevant. In your comment here, you chose to explain to me about the oboe (pretty badly, I might add.) But don't worry, is a great comment and I will unpack all of it as soon as I can.
Ok, looking forward to that. I'd like to note, that my comment about oboe needing a lot of force is obviously wrong on some detailed level of music making that you choose, but it is actually irrelevant to the point of the discussion, so I hope you won't lose time trying to explain to me that I don't understand oboe playing.
This is not about me. This is about what Mayer said at the course and how you interpret it. It would be nice if we stick with that.
Your suggestions are great but I would never have had the nerve to follow them when I was young. As an older woman, I have found the courage. As a matter of fact, my composition teacher said something inappropriate to me in a private lesson and I stopped him by saying "That was rude." He looked surprised, but never did it again. Things improved so much that he ended up being my mentor.
He’d complain about a woman breaking up with him at the door. I think he has a tiny dick. Has to belittle them. Ugh.
This “behavior” happens in every job sector.
I showed these videos to my husband, who was utterly disgusted. I said to him, “this was my viola teacher in conservatory.”
I wouldn't have had the courage to do this back in my student days in the '80s, but perhaps someone can stand up in the moment and say "I'm uncomfortable with the language/gesture/touching I just heard/observed, and I imagine the student on stage is also uncomfortable. Would anyone that agrees with me please stand up, too?"
Or "I think there's a way to convey the same idea without being offensive, such as: "I would like you to play it ____. Would anyone else who found this comment offensive please stand up?"
Or "I think people may be laughing because they are uncomfortable; I think you could convey your idea in a more supportive manner like this ..."
It’s uncomfortable laughter
I am an outsider to this world, but feel like your advice would be both appropriate and effective.